I spanked with Jake, for the same reason I had him circed- I was young, uneducated, and I followed in the footsteps of the generation above me, like most people do. By the time I had Bailey, I had decided not to spank, except for a handful of occasions.
Why spank?
Because your parents did and you didn't turn out bad?
-Well, your parents also may have smoked around you, or let you ride unbuckled on long road trips like mine did, or not put you in a car seat. Yes, you didn't get hurt, but that doesn't mean you couldn't have.
Because the bible says to?
Spare the rod and spoil the child.
Meaning
The notion that children will only flourish if punished, physically or otherwise, for any wrongdoing.
Origin
From the Bible, Proverbs 13-24 (King James Version):
He that spareth his rod hateth his son.
"The much-touted ‘biblical argument’ in support corporal punishment is founded upon proof-texting a few isolated passages from Proverbs. Using the same method of selective scripture reading, one could also cite the Bible as an authority for the practice of slavery, adultery, polygamy, incest, suppression of women, executing people who eat pork, and infanticide. The brutal and vindictive practice of corporal punishment cannot be reconciled with the major New Testament themes that teach love and forgiveness and a respect for the sacredness and dignity of children—and which overwhelmingly reject violence and retribution as a means of solving human problems. Would Jesus ever hit a child? NEVER!" -The Rev. Thomas E. Sagendorf, United Methodist Clergy Retired), Hamilton, Indiana. 2006.
Wow- he hit the nail right on the head. I couldn't say it any better.
Ok, so other than the biblical instruction to spank, what other reason could you possibly find to want to hit your own child? Does it help? How often do you need to do it? Are you seeing the behavior change for the better? The answer is probably no. Of course the behavior will immediately stop- out of shock and fear, but they will repeat the same behavior again. Why? Because your child is 2, or 3, or 4 and is acting appropriately for their age. They are testing their boundaries. Should you let them do whatever they want? Of course, not! Firm discipline without violence works wonders. Make a timeout area, whether it is a carpet square, or a specific chair or step, be consistant. Consistancy is key in discipline, for it to work. Time-outs can start early. A one year old can sit for a few seconds when they have misbehaved. Remember, one minute per year. So, if your child is 3, they should have a 3 minute time out. Sometimes, you may have to have your child in time-outs a dozen or more times, but isn't that better than hitting your child a dozen or more times. Have you actually seen someone spank a child? I don't mean the freak-show people who beat their children in Wal-Mart, but a normal spanker? It just leaves a sick feeling doesn't it? And it should. Why would we ever want to hurt our children? Why would Jesus ever want us to hurt our children?
http://www.unhinderedliving.com/discipline.html
One final verse which often gives parents trouble is the verse "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him" (Proverbs 13:24). The word "rod" is used in various ways in scripture, and in the original Hebrew there were eight to ten different meanings for the word. The pole that shepherds used to guide their sheep along the road was called a rod. It was not used to hit the sheep, but to guide them as they walked and keep them on the road. This would correspond to the framework we talked about earlier. It is simply a guide. The shepherd also had a large club called a rod which he used to drive away predators, but it never was used to hit the sheep. God also spoke of the "rod of my mouth" which he used for discipline also. In short, the rod was any article or method used to guide, teach, or discipline. It did not have to be a physical method, either, or God could not have used his mouth as a rod.
This is a very interesting take ont he scripture! Wow- the rod doesn't neccessarily mean to hit the child!
The first thing we need to ask ourselves when a young child is misbehaving is what do they need that I have overlooked? Are they hungry, tired, sick, bored? When Bailey acts bratty, even at this age, I pretty much know that she's either tired or is getting sick. Her body and her behavior tells me something is wrong! I can read her like a book!
How can we possibly teach our children that it is never ok to hit another person, if we ourselves are spanking them? But it's different, right? Wrong.
I hope this has given those of you with little ones some food for thought.
You'd spank your kid for running in the road?
ReplyDeleteI think if spanking is the only tool in your discipline tool box you are short-sighted. I also think if time outs are your only tool, you are short-sighted. I think if a firm voice or "the look" is your only tool, you are short-sighted. Different situations call for different methods.
I'd also like to see where the Bible EVER says adultery is ok. Are they referring to having multiple WIVES? Also, infanticide and incest? That's a stretch.
We'll have to agree to disagree Beck. But a good post!
Hmm. Well, I don't agree with spanking either. Not that I'm a parent-not yet anyway. But, my theosophical beliefs lying in Pantheism, wherein the whole purpose we are here is for the experience of what we know, and hence re-membering what and who we are; I don't feel the need to resort to such physical measures. In fact, such measures are bound to antagonize the one you are discipline against yourself.
ReplyDeleteA much better, and a more holistic approach is talking out and reasoning. Nothing is better than reasoning and logic - and plus its permanent.
The only reason people don't adopt it is because it;s a slow method. But everybody today wants fast, instant results ni disciplining the kids. But discipline is not a McDonald's burger. The longer it takes to imbibe, the longer it'll stay...
Amanda- I think the point IS that it's a stretch. Just like using that one verse in Proverbs as an excuse for spanking. :)
ReplyDeleteAs for the running in the road thing- if a child repeatedly breaks away and runs in the road (Jake used to do that), I'm just saying that it wouldn't bother me if others spank. Like I said, I don't spank, so it would be a non-issue with me.
Ah, thank you! I so hate the biblical "reason" used for spanking. Experts time and again have said that it's not only the worst method around and teaches children bad things, but that it's ineffective yet people still spank and even promote spanking because it's supposedly Biblical.
ReplyDeleteTime-outs works for many kids. For our 5-year-old, taking away privileges works really well. We don't call it 1-2-3 Magic, but it's the same general principle -- staying calm and unemotional, talking about the behavior only, and telling him what we need him to do instead of what he's doing. If he doesn't do it by the third time, a privilege is taken away and we tell him what it will be. By now, usually before I can get "this is your last warning," out of my mouth, he's changed his behavior to whatever it is I want because he doesn't want any privileges taken away.
Spanking just isn't necessary, period. And studies have shown time and again that it leads to kids who, when they're older, are more violent. Which is a pretty natural conclusion.
So I thank you for this post, and I wholeheartedly agree.
Good post Beck. I was just coming for a light hearted WW, but got a little more than I bargained for!
ReplyDeleteI started spanking initially b/c it was one tool of many to try - it honestly had nothing to do with a biblical perspective - I've never used that as an excuse to spank, maybe some b/c my parents did but not that I had to b/c they did. I do agree that consistency is the key (as in me being consistent after I tell him to do or not to do something), but I also agree with Amanda that different situations call for different methods.
We've tried a couple methods to see how he responds with each & see if one is better than the other. You can bet your bottom dollar, I'm not going to count to 10 or even 3 though!! And I'm also not going to have a sit down & reason it out (not at this age). Now I do believe in talking it through, but that's after the punnishment (as in you did this, this consequence happened & here's how it won't have to happen again next time). So far, he's responded best to having things taken away ... typically the 'thing' that's causing the problem.
Now where's the lighthearted WW:)
Word. I completely agree.
ReplyDeleteAnd regardless of what the bible says (or doesn't say)...
"Spanking demonstrates that it's all right for people to hit people, and especially for big people to hit little people, and stronger people to hit weaker people." - Dr. Sears
Wow! Way to be thought provoking Beck! But unfortunately, we're going to definitely disagree on this one. I'm all for discipline and love all the different, effective techniques mentioned above...and yes, spanking is one of those effective techniques. When you see those white trash people yank their child's arm out of the socket at the local Wal-Mart and beat the tar out of them...that's not what I'm talking about. That's not spanking! That's pure beating out of anger. But in the privacy of your home as a consequence to an undesired action, then spanking your child to correct the behavior so as to not leave a bruise, mark, or draw blood is an absolute effective way.
ReplyDelete100 kids come through my classroom each day and there are several of them that could benefit from a little spanking!!
The thing that's the most ironic to me, is that most spankers are Christian. Funny how hitting is such a non-Jesus-like trait, but Christians hit their children! That is so insane to me.
ReplyDeleteI know what you mean, but I honestly think that if Jesus had kids, spanking would've been something He'd have done. I really believe that! I also think the difference is that you're using the word "hit" which, to me, implies WANTING to cause harm; done with spite.
ReplyDeleteBeckbeck - you're definitely using the term hitting wrong!! I'm sorry you disagree with it, but spanking & hitting are different. Staci's walmart example is perfect. And it's kind of silly to throw the whole christian thing into it ... you were a christian when you chose to spank Jake & you're still a christian when you chose not to spank Bailey. So your view has changed but does that really have anything to do with your christian beliefs ... did you start spanking after consulting God's Word or did you stop after consulting God's Word again or did you just talk to other people, get other views & change your opinion? I guess I shouldn't take offense to your comment above b/c at one point you were "insane", but for the record I'd never call your parenting skills 'insane'.
ReplyDeleteI have to say that I believe in spanking. Simply because God has called me to be an authority over Nora's life. And I am going to parent her the way that he teaches me. I am showing her that this is what God says is right if she does not obey. I am showing her that I am choosing to obey the Lord. And that is in turn what I want for her. I am reading Shepherding a Child's Heart by Tedd Tripp. He writes that "What your children say or do is a reflection of what is in their hearts. Luke 6:45 For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks." He says that "this verse teaches that behavior is not the basic issue. The basic issue is always what is going on in the heart." He says that "the heart is the control center of life. Parents ofter get sidetracked with behavior." He says that our goal in disicpline can not be just changed behavior. The thing that alrets you to your child's need for correction is his behavior. Behavior irritates and thus calls attention to itself. Behavior becomes the focus. You think you have corrected when you have changed unacceptable behavior to behavior that you sanction and appreciate. What is the problem? you ask. The problem is this: Your child's needs are far more profound that his aberrant behavior. Remember, his behavior does not just spring forth uncaused. His behavior - the things he says and does-reflect his heart. If you are to really help him, you must be concerned with the attitudes of heart that drive his behavior. Tripp goes on to explain even further how to expose what is in your child's heart and to understand how his heart went astray to produce such behavior. Tripp outlines all "Worldly" disciplines and what they tend to produce in children. The bottom underline of them is that they only teach kids how to get away with thing in the moment. Children only learn how to make their mom and dad approve, they don't learn how to get that behavior out of their hearts. He believes in two methods of discipline. The rod (spanking) and communication. He says these two have to be woven together in the actual shepherding of a child's heart. Tripp gives so much scripture and rich outline to each method in his book. For communication he says that communication is not just you telling your child but it is a conversation with your child. The different types of communication he outlines that we should use are Encouragement, Correction, Rebuke, Entreaty, Instruction, Warning, Teaching, & Prayer. He believes in rich communication with your children. Children need to know that they have sin in their hearts. They need to know that when they disobey their mom and dad they are really disobeying God. Then he outlines the biblical methods of the rod. The function of the rod: Proverbs 29:15 to impart wisdom. Proverbs also connects wisdom with fearing the Lord. The child who is not submitting to parental authority is acting foolishly. He is rejecting the jurisdiction of God. Ultimately, to refuse God's rule means to choose his his own rule that leads to death. it is the height of foolishness. What is the Rod? The rod is a parent, in faith toward God and faithfulness toward his or her children, undertaking the responsibly of careful, timely, measured, and controlled use of physical punishment to underscore the importance of obeying God, thus rescuing the child from continuing in his foolishness until death. By definition, the rod is a parental exercise. Tripp also writes about the distortions of the rod...the rod is not the right to hit our children whenever we wish, not venting of frustration, not retribution, not associated with vindictive anger. Of course he goes into much more detail in how to handle and give a spanking. He goes through the whole topic of hurting your children and teaching them to hit. Tripp has so much wisdom in this book. I feel that God has truly opened up the scripture to him. He makes it so clear and understandable. It just make sense. I totally recommend this book for anyone who is struggling with the rod. And wasn't the staff used to break the sheep's leg when it went astray? I alway thought it was, if the lamb went astray the shepherd would break his legs with his rod and carry him back home.
ReplyDeleteMandi- what I meant is that the idea that physically hurting a child would be ok with Jesus, is an insane idea. I wasn't calling other people's parenting skills insane or other people insane. I certainly wasn't calling anyone insane! I'm sorry if the way I worded it offended you. (hugs)
ReplyDeleteStaci- if you are spanking, you are wanting to cause harm- the point is for it to hurt, or it wouldn't be a physical punishment
Mandi- my point about Christianity is that most spankers I've come across (online and IRL) are Christian. Spanking, which is physically hurting a child, (I'll refrain from saying hitting) is something that seems like such a non-Christian trait, so it is ironic to me that Christians are so willing to spank.
ReplyDeleteI feel that spanking is not nesscary and there are other ways to discipline your children. i agree time out works if you are consistant with it. i don't have children but i worked in daycare for many years. as we know your can not spank there so you have to come up with different ways. when you put them in time out they realize that i don't like to sit here by myself, or not letting them do one of the things they like to do helps.
ReplyDelete